Author: Chip Filson

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The Critical Role of Credit Union History Right Now

Recently I contacted the Library of Congress (LOC) to see if they had copies of Report on Credit Unions.  This monthly printed publication was begun in January 1957 and continued through the mid 1980’s.

Here is what the librarian found in the search of their records:

I am sending you the title page of the Report on Credit Unions published in January 1957–the only issue we have in the collection. I also noticed that it was cataloged as a monograph, not a serial. 

I ran another search in the Ulrich’s Periodicals Index using the ISSN number–I have attached the record from Ulrich’s as well. Ulrich’s shows a different publisher, but the original publication might have been bought at some point by CoVest Reports, Inc. listed in Ulrich’s. The serial appears to have been a bi-weekly newsletter which might be the reason it wasn’t collected by the Library.

I searched Google books and found the title mentioned in several publications:
Congressional hearing from 1963 which refers to volume 5, issue no.3, dated March 15, 1963 published by Reports, Inc., Kent, Conn.


In-plant Thrift and Loan Services by Banks and Credit Unions (1959) by Rudolf Modley – the name on the 1957 issue–cites several articles from Report on Credit Unions.  

That is the extend of the governmental records of the Report’s  “first draft of credit union history” published during  this consequential time of credit union expansion including the era of deregulation.

The Report was cited in Congressional testimony, linked above, as part of the debate during the President’s tax message in 1963.   The reference to the Report was not about taxation but rather the necessity for supporting quality supervision of credit unions citing an Illinois example.

The Absence of Historical Records

When attempting to write a brief account of Ed Callahan’s years as Chair of NCUA I learned there was no repository for trade association publications or the numerous private newsletters that tracked the industry prior to the era of online media.

CUNA Mutual had sent their records to the Credit Union Museum.   NAFCU when it closed down in 2024 apparently had no repository of their numerous magazines and weekly newsletters to chronical their founding in 1969.  Similarly I could not locate a source for CUNA’s weekly and monthly printed publications.  State league newsletters were similarly not kept.

I contacted NCUA to see if the 21 NCUA Video Network VHS tapes created in the Callahan era had been saved.  No copies could be found of these special reports which, among other recordings, included live excerpts of the first, and only, national examiner’s conference.  There were two hour long live recordings of sessions with examiners led by Rex Johnson and a Harvard Business School professor to enhance examiner analysis and supervision skills.

Why the Past Matters Now

History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.   At the moment NCUA leaders are confronting the challenge of becoming more focused and efficient following policy guidance of the Trump Administration.

In 1981/2 the Agency faced a similar challenge but for very different reasons.   The credit union system was in crisis.  “Survival” was the priority according to CUNA President Jim Williams when introducing new Chair Ed Callahan at the February 1982 GAC convention.

The broad policy agenda was for credit unions and NCUA to respond to the new era of deregulation.   For NCUA this meant a complete reorganization of the agency to prioritize field examinations and supervision led by the six regional directions.   The DC head office reduced the number of staff departments from 16 to 2, an Office of Programs and an Office of Administration.  The Executive Director, Bucky Sebastian, was also the General Counsel.

The recently created DC consumer examination team which planned to employ as many as 50 personnel was in turn transferred to the RD’s. Every examiner had responsibility for completing an annual safety and soundness and compliance exam for every FCU,

The result of this reorganization placed operational responsibility on the RD’s, not central office staff. It led to a reduction in agency budgets for three consecutive years along with the lowering of FCU operating fees annually.  The agency including the CLF and NCUSIF had been designed for the open competition in which the credit union system completely outpaced their banking and S&L counterparts for the decades to come.

The Relevance for Today

Instead of trauma and closed door board discussions, these 1982  changes were done openly and with clearly stated administration and policy goals.  The messages were delivered via the video network with the first tape a credit union panel discussing the challenges of deregulation.

Public board meetings were taken “on the road” with the first held in historic Faneuil Hall In Boston MA in 1982.  Weekly press releases covered both agency initiatives and credit union progress.

But finding the contemporary public record of these events is very difficult.  When the past is lost, or worse ignored, then the present is left adrift.  When there is no understanding of how past events, there is a tendency to believe that only the present matters.

When disruptions occur whether from market or economic forces or changes of administration, the tendency is to protect the status quo, the known.  This is the result of bureaucratic incumbency.   It is only human nature for those at the top of an organization or career to protect their legacy.

The best way to understand the need and inevitability of change is to know the past.  This is particularly critical if those with ultimate responsibility are not familar with credit union, let alone NCUA, history. That familiarity can not only provide lessons but olso hope that change is necessary for an even better future.

That was the outcome of NCUA’s 1981-1985 makeover.   One would hope it would be the result  in today’s NCUA leadership deliberations.

 

 

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How to Serve Owners: Examples from Two American Icons

Organizations succeed by what they accomplish externally for their owners, not because of superior internal cultures or unique strategies.

As Peter Drucker, management consultant, educator and author, stated, “all results are on the outside,” meaning that the true measure of an organization’s success lies in the outcomes it achieves externally with its customers.  In credit unions these are the owners.

Berkshire’s  Annual Meeting Celebration

Warren Buffett, the founder of Berkshire Hathaway, has overseen a 28% increase in the stock (BRK B) price over the past year.   However, whatever  the company’s return to shareholders, there is a weekend celebration inviting all owners to Omaha to hear from the founder directly.

The event is much like a credit union conference complete with an exhibit hall full of Berkshire- owned vendors.  Here is this year’s Guide to the festivities:

The 27-page guide includes an invite to a 5K race, the location of all Dairy Queen restaurants in the area, plus numerous other sites and information for navigating the three days of events:

The formal annual meeting in the CHI Convention Center is the main event on Saturday.  It begins with four hours of open Q & A questions from the live audience and from viewers on CNBC’s live broadcast.   Buffett, and maybe one or two of his senior staff, will respond to all queries.

The formal  meeting with votes on motions starts at 1:00 PM.   But the owners have their say first.

This meeting is a demonstration of Berkshire’s commitment to put its owners’ interests first.  It is a long standing tradition with shareholders attending year after year.  It is a capitalist feast of business successes and company good will that creates long lasting relationships with the company’s individual shareholders.

Can  member-owned credit unions find a better example of trust, leadership and pride in our movement?   What if Navy FCU or SECU decided to celebrate their success in a similar manner with workshops on personal finance, examples of member owner businesses and a meeting where members had their say?

Such an occasion would be noteworthy for the institution, but more importantly, it would be an example of the cooperative movement having its “Woodstock Moment.”

Giving Member-Owners Choice

A second example that credit unions can learn from is a recent innovation from the Vanguard mutual fund family.

Vanguard is a pioneer in low cost, index fund investing.  Warren Buffett’s advice to young investors singles out Vanguard’s approach as the easiest and most likely successful way to financial wealth accumulation for every day folks.

A second unique feature of the firm is that the  company that manages the funds is owned by each of the individual funds.  In other words it is a mutual coop, not a public or privately owned investment company like T. Rowe Price or Fidelity.

It has recently offered a unique way for individuals who own their funds to directly exercise their proxy voting preferences in the companies in which their fund’s invest.  This is a description of Vanguard’s new “Voting Choice for Member Owned Stocks.”

” It provides a way for you to participate in the proxy voting process by choosing a proxy voting policy that will help direct how your shares in select Vanguard equity index funds are voted on shareholder matters at the companies held in those funds.

Public companies hold shareholder meetings where key issues—such as electing the board of directors and executive pay—are presented to a shareholder vote. Proxy voting enables shareholders to cast their votes without attending a specific company’s meeting.

Investor Choice currently offers five policy options that reflect a broad range of approaches to proxy voting that you may choose to apply to your participating Vanguard equity index funds.” 

One example would be Company Board-aligned Policy.

At the end of 2024, Vanguard had $10.4 trillion under management of which 82% were in index funds.

Vanguard serves over 50 million clients globally.  What kind of technology support must have been developed to allow an individual investor to cast their tiny share of a company’s voting proxy in line with each investor’s preferences?

In the past Vanguard has followed its Investor Advised Funds Policy, a single option.

The Credit Union Takeaway

If Vanguard can empower their  individual investors to exercise their minute share of corporate governance, should credit unions be exploring  options to enhance member-owner preferences? This is more than greater product choices for credit card or varied savings plans.

Some credit unions now give members options for charities to which they can direct interchange income.  But what are other ways members might be willing to participate in options such as funding affordable housing for seniors or first time home buyers?   Is it possible for members to have a say in prioritizing community ventures and partnerships?

Vanguard, a $10 trillion firm with 50 million clients, returned the owner’s proxy voting power back to the individual.  Might credit unions find a way to engage their owners in how their savings and credit extensions are being directed?  Or, as in public company voting, to approve senior executive compensation? Or even in buying a bank?

 

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Internships:  Planting Seeds for Future Employees

Many firms including credit unions offer summer internships as a way to attract college students and introduce them to their firm’s culture and employment opportunities.

One unique organization has a special program that places students interested in cooperatives with internships in the coop sector.   This 501 C 3 is NASCO or the North American Students of Cooperation.

Affordable Student Housing

NASCO’s  primary activity  is working with student- led campus housing cooperatives.  They provide resources, assist in their development, and encourage  participants to remain active  in the cooperative sector. There are over 20 of these housing facilities on campuses throughout the US.

NASCO’s projects would seem to be a natural fit especially for any credit union serving  these campuses.  This activity is also a primary source for applicants in the internship program described below.

Finding Future Leaders

One of the ways NASCO builds future cooperative leaders is their cooperative Internship program.   It functions as a placement service matching interested students with internships for 60-90 days during the summer.

Since the 1980s, this program has connected talented students with cooperative organizations, providing  hands-on work experience.

NASCO  matches skilled  cooperator applicants with host organizations including housing co-ops, worker co-ops, nonprofits, and credit unions.  These short term assignments are intended to be  meaningful projects that build familiarity with  areas such as governance, marketing, finance, and operations.

In turn host organizations have a chance to consider a person’s interest and skills for potential future employment.

The Summer 2025 Program Is Underway

NASCO is still seeking hosts for its Summer 2025 program.  This is a special opportunity for credit unions as candidates have expressed interest in working for a cooperative organization.

Because time is short, I would encourage interested credit unions to call NASCO’s internship manager, Katherine Jennings, at (708) 317-8608, or email at katherine@nasco.coop

NASCO provides interns monthly cohort zoom meetings to connect with fellow co-operators, share experiences, engage in guided discussions, skill-building trainings, or readings tailored to their interests. These sessions deepen their cooperative knowledge and strengthen their future potential role in member-owned organizations.

A complete description of the program is on NASCO’s website here.  Although the site indicates the host applications are closed, I am told hosting  opportunities can still be taken through this week.

There is also the chance to sponsor through grants, the internship network program.  Those options can be found here. 

The Future of the Cooperative Movement

Credit unions and NASCO share common values in promoting cooperative solutions.  The non-profit’s most important service is the affordable housing programs for students on campuses which I will highlight in a later blog.

I would encourage credit unions to reach out to NASCO and learn more about all aspects of ther activities including the November conference in Ann Arbor, MI. The group would seem to be a logical partner for any credit union’s financial  and community investment goals.

 

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Springtime

We returned from a week away to see the yard bursting with daffadils and hyacinths and the hints of green buds on trees.   Every flower appears at its anointed time.

The Star Magnolia reveals its blossoms one by one  until the tree is covered in a full white gown. (next week).

Earth’s annual renewal is colorful and inspiring.  Wordsworth’s poem reminds however, we still have much to do in our human endeavors versus nature’s spontaneous transformation.

Lines Written in Early Spring

By William Wordsworth

I heard a thousand blended notes,
While in a grove I sate reclined,
In that sweet mood when pleasant thoughts
Bring sad thoughts to the mind.

To her fair works did Nature link
The human soul that through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think
What man has made of man.

Through primrose tufts, in that green bower,
The periwinkle trailed its wreaths;
And ’tis my faith that every flower
Enjoys the air it breathes.

The birds around me hopped and played,
Their thoughts I cannot measure:—
But the least motion which they made
It seemed a thrill of pleasure.

The budding twigs spread out their fan,
To catch the breezy air;
And I must think, do all I can,
That there was pleasure there.

If this belief from heaven be sent,
If such be Nature’s holy plan,
Have I not reason to lament
What man has made of man?

The Joy of New Life
Spring renews hope as flowers presnt  their beauty unasked and full of pure joy.
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A Moderate’s Message on America’s Future

David Brooks (born August 11, 1961)[1] is a Canadian-born American book author and political and cultural commentator. Though he describes himself as an ideologic moderate, others have characterised him as centrist, moderate conservative, or conservative, based on his record as contributor to the PBS NewsHour, and as opinion columnist for The New York Times.

Here is a throughtful, entertaining and insightful presentation given last month in Great Britain on America’s direction.

His purpose is to put the current American angst about current issues into a longer perspective.  He sees our history as a cycle of cultural and political “rupture and repair.”

Of special note for credit unions and cooperatives, is his belief that the current trend is moving away from hyper-individualism to a more communal society.

Our moral formation is at the center of who we are as a people and as a country.

While the talk is a social analysis with several political references, his description captures some of the central dilemmas credit unions as value based organizations are also experiencing.

Credit unions are creatures of the society in which they operate.   You might want to ask if his critique of “elites” in America’s cultural life has parallels in your credit union and the larger movement.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=QSa52TR9tCA)

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It’s the Members Who Have the Power to Bring Change

Uncertainty reigns in Washington DC about the future of federal government agencies and their traditional roles versus the public.

CDFI grants are threatened; minority (democratic) board members of the FTC are fired; agency personnel are asked to submit weekly updates to DOGE on their work. Credit union taxation is on some agendas. NCUA board members spar over OD fees, versus uniting to support the agency’s mission to serve credit unions.

As the political and constitutional events evolve, the outcome will depend on political power.  For credit unions, this is the voting and lobbying efforts of their members.  Every industry “walks the hill.”  Every paid lobbying group makes PAC donations.

But few groups would claim the potential clout of member-owners acting to protect their democratic institutions.

All Politics Is Local

Despite the news from Washington, all voting is done locally.

However, this member constituent power is latent.  Asking for action requires informed  awakening and clear messaging.

An immediate way to activate this process is to engage the members at the annual meeting.  That is where their attention as owners and their role in governance is exercised.

The required annual baord election is the opportunity to affirm their potential political role by making this a real meeting, not a pro forma event.  It starts, as shown in the example below, by showing how their board members are nominated and then voted on as part of the meeting.

The Chair and CEO’s reports should illustrate  their credit union’s special role in members’ lives and in their communities.  When presenting threats to the cooperative model, the members will know what is at stake.  Finally, specific actions they may be called upon to  support their  member-owned financial cooperatives  should be discussed and feedback sought.

Activating Member Empowerment at the Annual Meeting

Here is the lead story in the March 13, 2025 email to members by O BEE credit union.

Transparency and Trust

The link at the end of the article lists the duties of the board, includes an application to be a nominee, and details of the board’s compensation.

Transparency is vital to a credible election process.  This strengthens  members’ awareness of their governance role. When the credit union then asks them to a act as citizens in a democracy, you have already “walked the talk.”  They can trust that you have their best interets in mind.

 

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Videos Empowering Members and their Credit Union

Putting members at the center of a credit union’s story is an art.  When done well, it reinforces the fundamental cooperative difference, especially when an integral part of the public message.

One credit union that does this with great skill  is Whitefish Credit Union in Whitefish, MT.

“God’s Country”

Below is a recent example of their unique video series.  These member centered short films portray individuals’ special interests, the natural landscape of the area, and a broad community purpose being served.

Following is a story by a founder of the Back Country Horsemen on this non-profit’s 50th anniversary.  Their example has extended across the country.  As one person remarks, every state has its own “back country,” even Delaware.

The video makes you want to saddle up and be a part of this ride with this credit union.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wodQNsu5fSQ)

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Bringing “Irish” to America’s Credit Union Movement

Just as St. Patrick brought Christianity to Ireland, Ed Callahan brought his Irish heritage to his many leadership roles with America’s Credit Unions.

His contributions were consequential for decades forward for every organization with which he engaged.

Many credit union leaders today never met Ed who died on March 18, 2009, shortly after the last call on St. Patrick’s day. He lived his Irish heritage with a family of eight children and a first career as a math teacher, coach and principal in the Catholic school system.

Relationships Build Collaboration

His three years and eight months as Chair of NCUA (1981-1985) positioned both credit unions and NCUA for resilience for generations to come.

Ed believed in relationships.  He nurtured these in hundreds of personal contacts.  When NCUA chair, he would sit outside the Hilton Hotel’s conference level cafe during the annual GAC and hold court with everyone walking in and out of the main hall.  For hours at each session.

He demonstrated time and again that the greatest credit union competitive advantage was collaboration. He used this capability to initiate the largest conference of examiners, regulators and credit unions ever held  in December 1984 in Las Vegas.  Organized and led by NCUA, more than 4,000 examiners, regulators and credit unions met to share ideas and experiences about the future of the cooperative system.

A Credit Union CEO

After co-founding and leading Callahan & Associates from 1985-1987, Ed became a credit union CEO. When he arrived at Patelco in October 1987, it was the 34th largest credit union in America.  Fifteen years later at his retirement, it was number 10.

The Irish and  Freedom

Another element  of Irish lore is the constant struggle for freedom in the country’s long relationship with Great Britain. Freedom requires individual responsibility and organizational unity.

Ed explained the policy of deregulation as placing responsibility for fundamental business decisions in the hands of the board and management, not government.  Self-help and community, woven into every aspect of  Irish history, are fundamental to credit union success.

In  a speech called The Three Freedoms to the Massachusetts CUNA annual meeting in November 1984 he outlined how the credit unon system contributed to the country’s ongoing efforts for freedom.

One person who portrayed Ed’s Irish roots and forceful personality is Jim Blaine, former CEO of State Empyees CU (NC).  This is his Look Back from March 2016.

by Jim Blaine

Always suspected that the problem with Ed Callahan was that as a youth he was beaten too often by Nuns in parochial school or, perhaps, not beaten enough. Well, whatever, either way the Nuns left their mark – an indomitable spirit!

Ed Callahan was Irish – brash, pugnacious, loud, hard drinking, fun loving – alive! But why be redundant? I said he was Irish!

For over a quarter of a century, we all watched and observed as Ed Callahan created shock waves in the credit union world. No one was neutral about Ed Callahan. His friends were fiercely loyal, his enemies equally committed. Ed inspired many and angered quite a few. Ed had style; he had presence. With Ed, you weren’t allowed to make contact without becoming involved, excited, immersed, engaged.

At Marquette, Ed must have played football in the same way he played life – without a helmet. You had no doubt that Ed Callahan always played for keeps. He had no intentions of losing, that was not one of the options. Ed was very straight-forward; your choices were always clear. The mission was defined; and, there was only one direct path to the goal. That path was either with you, around you, over you, under you, or through you; you could step aside or get on board. It was your choice; but your choice never changed the mission, nor the path, nor the goal.

Some said that Ed was a visionary…

… they were wrong. Ed Callahan was a revolutionary. Visionaries talk about change, revolutionaries take you there. Ed led from the front – a leader of conviction, rather than convenience; principles above posture – courageous. Revolutionaries, by definition, create problems; overturn applecarts; rebuke the status quo. That happened at NCUA. Appointed by President Reagan, Ed arrived at NCUA in the midst of turmoil. Ed defined the mission; he reformed and remolded the Agency. He taught a regulatory agency how to stop working to prevent the last crisis. He explained that a coach never executes a play and that on Monday morning it’s never hard to see what went wrong – but it is rarely relevant. Teacher, coach, lessons in life; hopefully well learned, hopefully still remembered.

But let me celebrate the essence of the man – that indomitable spirit – one last time, for those who never had the opportunity; for those who still have doubts; for those who never fully understood. One of Ed’s harshest critics, noted with much wryness, that even in death Ed “couldn’t get it right”. Why, I asked? “Because Callahan died on March 18th instead of on the 17th, his beloved St. Patrick’s Day.” You know this type of critic – cynical, smug, self-assured without much basis, not really worth the effort, but…

Just for the record, I would simply like to point out one final time that – first and foremost – Ed Callahan was a fully-fledged, fully-flagrant Irishman – body and soul! And, no self-respecting Irishman would ever celebrate the end of St. Patrick’s Day until the last bell at the pub had rung. That would have meant that Ed Callahan’s “last call” would have come sometime after 4:00 am – on the morning of the 18th. Style, presence, courage – true to the last! A shamrock of joyful vigor and purpose!  

And one last thought… in the final analysis you can say many things about a great man’s life… some men are admired, some are respected, some are envied, some are feared… and countless other adjectives and accolades. But, in the final analysis, the most important thing you can say about a great man is… he will be missed.  

And, Ed Callahan will be missed…  

 

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Your Job Evaluation

A Classic by Jim Blaine

published August 30, 2016

The Robust Job Evaluation Ritual…

Job evaluations must be objective or else they wouldn’t be fair.  And, life is not fair, so where does that leave us?  Ever thought about that?

Some consultant, some robusterian behavioral wizard, some unfathomable, “deep space” PhD, some “afraid-they’re-gonna-sue” compliance officer has stuck the rest of us with this required annual ritual.

Much like Halloween, we all dress up as something we’re not and parade about playing the adult version of “trick or treat.”   We all are aware that the game is rigged, but we do our best to play along and objectively evaluate ourselves and others.  “Facebook evaluations” make more sense – y’know,  “thumbs up/thumbs down”?
Mirror, mirror on the wall… Oh, what fun – right!

“You’re really are…
well… just incredible!

What a lie!  But, here’s the most honest – and perhaps the only honest –  evaluation I’ve ever read:

The Honest Job Evaluation

* Job Knowledge
Employee Response:  I understand my job completely.
* Quantity of Work

Employee Response:  I feel I get as much work done as anyone else in the department – more in some cases.

* Quality of Work

Employee Response:  I expect things to be right or not at all.

* Planning & Organization

Employee Response:  I like to plan my work and work my plan.

* Attendance & Punctuality

Employee Response:  I’m always on time unless something happens.

* Cooperation

Employee Response:  I get along with everyone. I rarely start it.

* Analytical Ability

Employee Response:  I have plenty of common sense. I don’t try to fix the wrong problem.

* Stability Under Pressure

Employee Response:  I have been known to have a fit but usually I can handle the pressure.

* Impact of Personality

Employee Response:  I keep my personality in order. I have earned a reputation I deserve.

* Self Expression

Employee Response:  I can tell things the way they are.

* Judgment

Employee Response:  My judgment is as good as the next one. I’m always pretty sure of everything.

* Dependability

Employee Response:  I am a very dependable person. I was raised this way.

* Leadership

Employee Response:  I try to set a good example. I’m willing to eat my own cooking.

* Initiative 

Employee Response:  I’m not one to be lazy. I know what to do when I see a wrecker with the hood up.

… really like that “wrecker with the hood up” line – don’t you!

* “robust” – adj., Eng., frequently used by economists and other robusterians meaning: “written by an idiot”.
Jim’s latest posts can be found here.
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What It’s Like to be a Federal Employee Today

This is a reprint of a March 6, story by WTOP news radio for Washington, D.C. This is typical of many reports interviewing current employees.

One must wonder how NCUA staff is feeling and thinking about their future.  For credit unions who have federal employees as members, now is the time to reach out and prepare a helping hand.   Remember, these are the owners, not customers.

‘Morale is not great’: US Fish and Wildlife worker says she’s bracing to be fired

Some U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service workers were recently advised by a superior to ensure they have their latest pay stubs and whole records saved, in the event they’re among the next federal workers to be fired.

Workers would only have 30 minutes to compile everything in the event their access card is deactivated. It’s better to be prepared, he told staff, than to be fired and have personal items remaining in the office afterward.

As President Donald Trump’s administration and the “Department of Government Efficiency,” make changes to the federal workforce, some staff members at the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service are on edge.

They’re keeping bags near their desks so they can be prepared, according to one worker who grew up in Southeast D.C. and currently works for the agency. She asked not to be named in order to speak freely.

“It’s just hard to imagine what it’s going to be like to walk away from this,” she said.

The agency oversees biosecurity, helping to determine what animals and plants should be brought to various parts of the country. Workers are also tasked with protecting endangered species and upholding the Endangered Species Act. A worker preventing an animal infestation of planes and parts was among those who was fired, she said.

But recently, she said, 20% to 30% of her colleagues have lost their jobs, putting that mission in jeopardy. Their access cards stopped working, and they received a termination letter that cited poor performance, she said.

When the deferred resignation offer came out, she overheard one of her coworkers asking whether he should trust the message. She advised him not to, but another colleague recommended she tone down the skepticism.

Some agencies have pushed back on some of the administration’s directives, she said, and the Fish and Wildlife Service has had meetings about how to handle memos and executive orders.

“Our meetings are like, ‘Well, let’s take some mindfulness time. We all have to care for you,’” she said.

She and her colleagues have also taken issue with the way some of the administration’s memos have been worded.

“’You’re a drain on the public, and they voted, they’ve made their choice clear, and they don’t want you,’” she said. “I mean, that’s essentially the way these memos open.”

DOGE’s approach, she said, starts from the assumption that there are too many workers, “and we’re just going to fire people, and that’s going to solve the problem.”

She’s tried offering some of her desk items to her colleagues, but they won’t accept, fearful that they might not have a desk soon.

“The morale is not great,” she said.

In the midst of all the uncertainty, “I don’t expect to be employed.”